Article No. 711: [Branch from no. 664] posted by Instructor on Sat, Mar. 13, 1999, 22:21
Subject: re: Alert and request for help

It seems to me that functioning in the chat rooms does require some more memory or something!! I t appears as though the chat rooms use Java programming - and David you know more about what that means - at any rate - once again we are checking out different possibilities and you are all wonderful guinea pigs!!


Article No. 715: [Branch from no. 711] posted by David Heise on Sun, Mar. 14, 1999, 08:17
Subject: re: Alert and request for help

In article 711 on Sat, Mar. 13, 1999, 22:21, Instructor writes:
>It seems to me that functioning in the chat rooms does
>require some more memory or something!! I t appears as
>though the chat rooms use Java programming - and David you
>know more about what that means.

I think Java requires certain versions or later of the browser you are using. I have asked for clarification on this from technical stafff at ITS.

David


Article No. 709 : posted by Dan Applegate on Sat, Mar. 13, 1999, 15:19
Subject: 3rd Reading Thoughts:Interprofessionals?

Dear group,

I didn't see the discussion start on this topic yet, so I initiated a new thread. If there is a better way, please let me know.

I have some personal thoughts on the speech given to the graduating class at Rose-Hulman. In my profession, I have found that becoming a resource to educators makes me more valuable than just doing a specific job or task. I also found that to be a good resource, I need to have a decent knowledge about the roles, jobs, and tasks of those I am a resource to. At first, I thought spreading myself across varying fields was a good idea. I also felt that the leadership program would help me achieve my goal. I thought with a doctorate in leadership, I would not be tied down to the specific or narrowly focused PhD in school psychology. By entering the leadership program, I was placing all my eggs in the "intereducationl(-professional) basket" discussed in the speech. Although I am still in the process of redefining my role-a new fear crept up as I read this article.

My guess is that if educational institutions begin interprofessional tracts, business will either see a need or not see a need for these people. If these people do fulfill a need, then the business world will probably create a position called the "interprofessional." Colleges will follow suit and begin offering majors in "interprofessionalship." And then the interprofessionals will have a defined role with specific academic tracts. If this happens, are we not moving to creating a new position rather than a paradigm shift? Please help me out of this bleak view from what I still believe is a good idea. Dan


Article No. 712: [Branch from no. 709] posted by ted brown on Sat, Mar. 13, 1999, 23:31
Subject: re: 3rd Reading Thoughts:Interprofessionals?

Hello Forum One:

I'm sorry i have been quiet the last few days. my mom has had a series of surgeries the past three weeks and I am presently in Detroit with her. Please remember Edna Brown in your prayers.

I would like to repond to a couple of comments on the previous readings before addressing Dan's comments on this current reading. I enjoyed the discussions and could not resist not responding before moving on.

Dan's comments on "positive power" of the spirit effecting education was very rich. As mentioned, it is critical that educators on all levels recognize the power of their influence and challenge their students as well as themselves to find some type of meaning in the materials they teach that will relate to the big questions of life so that the education process will be a meaningful experience for ALL parties involved.

Sheila's response of absoluteness relating to meanings and life's questions tied into what the group has been sharing that if we are to have the spirit mentioned and discussed in the article, then there has to be a relationship meaningful purpose for that which we are required to teach and learning in the traditional educational system.

Regarding the 3rd Reading: First of all, thanks Dan for kicking the group off in the discussion of the article. It appears from your assessment of the readings that we may be headed for another traditional position or course of program if it is determined that the program of "leadership" is view by the parties that be in academia or business necessary to have a required format of study or outline to meeting certain professional requirements or job guidelines.

What you have noted is very possible and an example of that is non-demonanatinal churches. They started out with the intentions of being non-traditional and apart from the other churches, and now the non-demonational churched has become a denomination within themselves establishing traditional guidelines to govern their programs.

In "leadership", the areas which we will venture to serve may very well dictate the course of the program in the future depending on its acceptance and value percieved by the academic and business communities. Hopefully there will not be a lockin of whether or not our Ph.D's are professionally competitive and accepted.

I believe however, in the spirit of the program, that we chart a course in our development that will be of value to the communities in which we are planning to serve and taylor our program to include those things which will be professionally recognized by traditionalist in the professional coummunities.

I think, Dan, you have raised some issues that need to be futher discussed because the article touches areas that impact our prosessional ambitions as potential Ph.D servant in our respective communities. What if the future communities of academia and business require a more traditional and sturcture leadership program for their operations, how can we prepare ourselves in our present prusuits to meet that challenge and possible changes in relationahip to what Dan has already mentioned in his comments on the article.

Forum One, let's talk and share!

ted


Article No. 716: [Branch from no. 709] posted by David Heise on Sun, Mar. 14, 1999, 08:34
Subject: re: 3rd Reading Thoughts:Interprofessionals?

Hello Dan,

Some very interesting thoughts here, ones I would not have had. Although, since I have not read the article yet, I cannot be certain of that.

However, from my own perspective on the relationship between "interprofessionalship" as a position and the Leadership program, you need have no fear. I see this program benefitting leaders in all professions. I do not see that the needs addressed by this program could be well served by creating a position called the "interprofessional".

In my position as CIO at Andrews, Shirley's motto, "I'm working on my Ph.D. today", is fulfilled daily. This program is opening my mind to new ways of bringing about change in ways that enhance the university's service to its clients and its competitveness, through the enabling use of technology. And in return, much of what I am doing in my job can be written directly into my Ph.D.

In other words, Leadership is making me a better CIO, but I continue to be CIO.

Now I must read the article!

David


Article No. 828: [Branch from no. 716] posted by Sheila Smith on Wed, Mar. 24, 1999, 19:06
Subject: re: 3rd Reading Thoughts:Interprofessionals?

My apologies for not responding earlier; I have been engaged in a desperate battle with a flu bug. One benefit of electronic communication is that my colleagues are unlikely to contract this terrible illness through the internet.

This particular response is to Dan's concern about the possible shift to "interprofessionalship" and its impact on the "leadership" tract. I see no need to panic or even to be concerned. The Leadership program itself fosters interprofessionalism with its emphasis on being servant leaders. After all, a servant MUST know and understand the needs of those he/she serves in order to BE a servant. The very nature of "service" requires that we know the languages, the processes, the spiritual aspects, etc. of the people involved in the enterprises we lead or our leadership is meaningless and ineffective. We MUST be interprofessional to be effective. Rather than be fearful of such a shift, we should cheer that the world is finally realizing what we knew all along: specializing to the point of separation and non-communication is counterproductive.

Sheila


Article No. 841: [Branch from no. 828] posted by ted brown on Fri, Mar. 26, 1999, 00:27
Subject: re: 3rd Reading Thoughts:Interprofessionals?

In my opinion, I believe that the education system should have an ongoing network and contact with the college and university in the schools of education to make sure that students are being exposed to different styles and systems to better meet the changing needs of the students. It's so easy to stay in the same mode of operations as well as cost wise than to deal with change. As leaders we must be willing to kick in the doors of change and make things happens to provide a model for others to adopt and follow.

ted


Article No. 713 : posted by ted brown on Sat, Mar. 13, 1999, 23:51
Subject: Summary on Second Reading Assignment: Spirituality

Hi Forum One:

I would like to express my comments for dialogue on the summary for reading assignment on spirituality.

As I reflect on the discussions of the group on this tpopic, the thing that sticks out most in my mid is the emphasis on the need to be passionate about teaching and recognize the importance of having a meaningful learning experience and communicating that to the students in the materials which they are presented.

Also, in addressing the "big questions" of life and learning applications of that which we are held accountable to teach. The big questions of how does learning impact my life and what would Jesus do are some of the questions that were raised. Each individual must make the assessments and application to find meaning and purpose for themselves. Also the importance of inflence on the learning process was another critical issue discussed by the group and if that influence is impacted by our own bias. We all have infulence and will be held accountable for how we use it.

The dialogue of the group was very good and the discussions were meaningful and effective. We had good communciation flow and exchange and I believe that the groupmembers were albe to express themselves and share their thoughts in an honest fashion. It appears for the comments and thoughts shared that the members of forum one are serious about this process and welcome the challenges of dialogue and discussion in this manner.

Additional comments, forum one. We will also need someone to summarize our comments to these questions. I would like to ask David to please consider this on behalf of the group if possible. I don't know if we are still able to meet this application or not. However we must move forward and complete the second assignment. Please give feedback on what you think and the recommendation of Dave.

let's talk!

ted


Article No. 717: [Branch from no. 713] posted by David Heise on Sun, Mar. 14, 1999, 08:59
Subject: re: Summary on Second Reading Assignment: Spirituality

In article 713 on Sat, Mar. 13, 1999, 23:51, ted brown writes:
>Hi Forum One:
>...
>Additional comments, forum one. We will also need someone
>to summarize our comments to these questions. I would like
>to ask David to please consider this on behalf of the group
>if possible. I don't know if we are still able to meet
>this application or not. However we must move forward and
>complete the second assignment. Please give feedback on
>what you think and the recommendation of Dave.

Hello Ted and Forum ONE!

I think Ted just gave a concise overview of our discussion on evoking the spirit. I agree with Ted's assessment about the quality of the comments that have been made.

I am amazed at the variety of reactions I have felt to submissions from each of our group. Some have struck a chord immediately, and triggered additional thoughts as I responded. Some of them, I must admit I just read in awe, and say to myself, "Wow!" They are way over my head, and take my brain into places that are thick with dust and obviously never used. I won't label myself by identifying those submissions. But I am really appreciating the richness, the depth and the diversity of comments being made by "our" group. We should plan to meet in a chat room some time and explore some of this more intereactively. I can go there pretty much any time Sundays or any week night except Wednesday.

David


Article No. 719: [Branch from no. 717] posted by Instructor on Sun, Mar. 14, 1999, 18:19
Subject: re: Summary on Second Reading Assignment: Spirituality

Forum ONE! I have cleaned up and archived some of your forum - if you weren't able to compile any of it for yourself - just email me or when you're here this summer - I can give you hard copies - these are excellent portrayals of a number of things 1) your ability to communicate - read and respond 2) your understanding of leadership issues and this week the article talks about 3) processual competencies which include building trust, seeking and giving appropriate feedback, negotiating from a win-win base and working from an issue rather than a fixed position. I see you doing all of these things! I have suggested that Sidney Dutra join your group - he has just figured the technology out - please welcome him! I will leave your posts up for this week so if you want to archive them you'll have a bit of time - but please feel freed - oops - to go onto the next two readings on "problem-based learning!


Article No. 724 : posted by ted brown on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 00:18
Subject: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

I will be addressing a few areas in this posting due to some problems I had replying earlier.

First of all, WELCOME SIDNEY to Forum One. We are excited to have you join our group.

Secondly, Thanks to Dr. Freed for the encouraging words and kind remarks regarding our group. I would like to have a hard copy, Dr. Freed, of our group conversations and I want to thank you for sharing that information with us. Your leadership in directing us is greatly appreciated.

Third, thanks david for your comments on the group summary and exchange in the first two reading sessions. I believe that we have an excellent dialogue in our group and your sharing of how you perceive what we are doing will continue to confirm that we are on target and growing. How do the rest of the team feel regarding the summary? ( Dan, Sheila, Mario, and the rest of the team. ) Please let us know and let's work on some chat time to futher discuss these issues. Suggested times and days?

David made some important point regarding professionalism and the leadership program as it relates to the Ph.D. I concluded from what David said that basically what we do as professional in our respect work areas will determine the value and strength of our Ph.D in leadership that is earned. Our contributions to our organizations, the daily challenges and achievements in obtaining our goals and objectives, and the applications made to the communities with the works we have done determine the difference in our our degree is perceived and valued.

Professioalism is not about being locked into a mole or fixed slot, it's about being flexible and creative as well as adaptable to meet the constant changes that we encounter and the skills we obtain from this process will enable us to be able to offer solutions and resolutions to the problems which will rise.

The strength of the degree and leadership services valued will be directly determined by the individual and what the person does with was is gained to serve others and the organization in which they work.

Thanks David for your approach in this area. How do you feel about what has been said in regards to this response. Am I on target? I guess we need to also look at problem-based learning as well after we dialogue on professionalism. Let me know what you think.

Sorry for the lengthly responses. I get carried away sometimes in these discussions.

ted


Article No. 735: [Branch from no. 724] posted by David Heise on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 13:14
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

In article 724 on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 00:18, ted brown writes:


>I concluded from what David said that basically what we do as
>professional in our respect work areas will determine the
>value and strength of our Ph.D in leadership that is
>earned.

Ted, your conclusion is spot on. I am determined that the Ph.D. I get from this program will be one that I can value and respect.

David


Article No. 771: [Branch from no. 735] posted by ted brown on Wed, Mar. 17, 1999, 23:05
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

I agree whole heartedly with you David on the value and respect of the Ph.D degree which we will earn. This leadership program is very special and the experiences we will encounter on the way will enable us to make a meaningful contribution to not only our places of employment but the communities at large if we remain committed to servant leadership. In my opinion, this represents the essence of professionalism.

ted


Article No. 739: [Branch from no. 724] posted by Dan Applegate on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 19:21
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

Forum ONE,

Welcome Sidney!

Excellent summary David...thank you. Since we are learning not to cement our thoughts too quickly, I believe we enjoy the insight others present as we dialogue. I wonder if we are moving away from our defenses that normally arise in discussion round tables and opening ourselves to greater learning through one another.

Ted, I didn't even think of the nondenominational churches, thank you for the example as verification of how this might happen in professinal life.

One quick point on the leadership program. I have not heard this from any of our members, but I hope we do not view the leadership program as only making us more valuable to our fields. I truly believe that this program has the potential to make my life more valuable. Since joining, I now actively look to involve myself in my community. Before this program I may have said "I do not have the time." However, being 'encouraged' to 'making time'through this program has drastically strengthened my leadership skills.

Dan


Article No. 752: [Branch from no. 739] posted by David Heise on Tue, Mar. 16, 1999, 11:34
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

In article 739 on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 19:21, Dan Applegate writes:
>Forum ONE,
>
>Welcome Sidney!

Hear! Hear! Good to have you on board Sidney.


>One quick point on the leadership program. I have not
>heard this from any of our members, but I hope we do not
>view the leadership program as only making us more >valuable to our fields...

Excellent point Dan. I believe it is quite impossible to confine the value of this program to just our work environment. It is going to impact positively on the way we relate to people wherever we find them, including in our homes and in the community.

David


Article No. 770: [Branch from no. 752] posted by Dan Applegate on Wed, Mar. 17, 1999, 22:07
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

David

I am glad others feel the same way. This program has really moved me in the right direction. At this point in my life, I can honestly say that I have no regrets for not doing enough or not getting involved. As this program changes my life, I believe I will continue to be able to say this.

Dan


Article No. 741: [Branch from no. 724] posted by Dan Applegate on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 19:30
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

I guess to open the discussion on Problem based learning, should we look at our own program first or discuss what we liked and dislike in the article? Does anyone think that due to our new Roundtable format that the leadership program is leaning toward it's own problem based learning?

Dan


Article No. 800: [Branch from no. 724] posted by David Heise on Sun, Mar. 21, 1999, 08:55
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

INNOVATION AND LEADERSHIP Paper

I have made a couple of comments on this paper previously in response to other Forum ONE! observations, such as those made by Dan about Collens' "interprofessional". Here are some other thoughts I had as I read Lewis Collens' speech.

As we have come to know, leadership is about imagining and shaping the future, and Collens starts out with some of the major developments affecting the future higher education. He mentions the "rapid growth of corporate universities", and the "shift in the pedagogical paradigm" promised by "long distance education and asynchronous learning". He concludes that "the world of 2023 is likely to be much more electronic and interactive than it is today." This tells me that by Collens' standard, this course we are participating in right now is cutting edge stuff in its method of delivery!

After illustrating the hazards of predicting the future, Collens gives a definition of higher education that I really like: "Higher education is not about teaching people to predict the future. It is about helping them to imagine and shape the future. It is about helping them to develop their talents to be leaders of innovation and responsible citizens of the world."

It is at this point that Collens introduces the concept of the "interprofessional". After listing four aims of liberal education, he adds a fifth aim for professional education: to develop "competence to solve problems by using a discrete set of techniques that reside within a particular profession." Coming back to his "responsible citizens" concept in his definition of higher education, he sounds an alarm about the narrowness of professional education: "Narrow professionals talk to each other, but often have difficulty relating their knowledge to the needs of a diverse society."

He gives a list of professions who are collaborating to enhance food safety - nutritionists, biologists, chemists, chemical engineers - BUT professional specialization occurs even within broad professions such as these. For instance, one of the departments of Information Technology Services at Andrews University is called Servers and Networks. One of the department of 4 is a Novell System Administrator. Two others have differing roles in UNIX server and network administration. The nature of the work done by each of these two sub-departments is very similar, and yet at present, neither is able to do the work of the other. Another "hat" that the manager of this group wears is "Emerging Technologies Coordinator". This is a very exciting position, and could be described as a "technology interprofessional". A lot of his attention is currently being taken up looking for ways of bringing together data, voice and video communications and finding a unified way to deploy such technologies as one login, One Card (for access, charging, etc), centralized online email directory, centralized network administration, centralized PC configuration and software maintenance, video conferencing…

Many of the technology pieces are available separately, and when our Servers and Networks team describe their vision to vendors at trade shows, they are always told things like "we are moving in that direction, but we are not there yet." Collens' definition of innovation seems very appropriate here: "Innovation is the art of using existing knowledge from seemingly unrelated areas to create valuable products, services and ways of doing business."

Sorry this is so long! I have one other comment I want to make. Collens says "The Renaissance professional is first and foremost a professional! This means he or she is fully grounded and credentialed in a particular discipline." This encourages me, because I do not see a future in simply knowing more and more about less and less. But the next two paragraphs speak directly to me. They are about teaching Renaissance professionals to *work* and *live* in a technological world. Since my professional area is information technology, I can have a role with my fellow Renaissance professionals with the technology part of this technological world we all work and live in. As our leadership journey unfolds, we can help each other by contributing from our different areas. This is where innovation comes from: "Innovation is the art of using existing knowledge from seemingly unrelated areas to create valuable products, services and ways of doing business." (Collens' definition again)

Thanks for your patience (if you got this far!)

David


Article No. 807: [Branch from no. 800] posted by Dan Applegate on Sun, Mar. 21, 1999, 21:18
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

Forum ONE

I have only scratched the surface in discussing this issue with the forum. I agree with David that we definitely on the cutting edge by using this technology. I must also add that having someone who works in the technology field is an invaluable resource to our program and this forum.

Although I have not been in the school systems long enough to see trends which emerge, drop out of existence, and then re-emerge. However, I am in the midst of "move" toward inclusion in the middle school I work in. I bring this up because I believe it directly relates to the speech on professionalism.

Teachers are taught methods to teach content to their students in their undergraduate programs. They are not taught to teach in a particular school setting or system. Although business will train their employees on new "skills" they want them to have, school systems do not. Although our middle school will be going to an inclusionary model, most of the teachers have not be trained to work within this model. As a result, resistance is quite high. It would be ideal if schools who adopt a particular model could create an undergraduate curriculum to develop the type of teachers which would fit their model.

Although someone going from school to business will be further trained within the company that hires him or her, schools systems fail to do this. Are the trends in education to unstable that specializing in a specific model such as an "inclusionary" too limiting? I am still wrestling with the idea of how interprofessionalism can alter teacher training. Any ideas? Dan


Article No. 861: [Branch from no. 807] posted by Instructor on Mon, Mar. 29, 1999, 20:53
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

Well - dear Forum One professionals!! Having just read over your comments of the articles it seems to me that - as Dan stated - we haven't begun to discuss the issue of problem-based learning - I think we got into it a bit in the chat room and maybe that's sufficient - however, there are several in this group who haven't responded at all - what do you think about that? The next two articles are about learning organizations - what does that mean to you - do you work in a learning organization? Would you like to? shirley


Article No. 868: [Branch from no. 861] posted by David Heise on Mon, Mar. 29, 1999, 23:24
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

In article 861 on Mon, Mar. 29, 1999, 20:53, Instructor writes:
>Well - dear Forum One professionals!! Having just read
>over your comments of the articles it seems to me that - as
>Dan stated - we haven't begun to discuss the issue of
>problem-based learning

I started a thread called "Limerick's Problem-based learning" Sunday week ago, with 4 entries. Dan's is the only other entry there. Did it somehow get marked as Read for everyone else, or was it read without comment?


>The next two articles are about learning organizations -
>what does that mean to you - do you work in a learning
>organization? Would you like to?
>shirley

I have not read the next papers yet, but look forward to doing so. I am (naturally) intrigued to see how the author relates this to information systems. But I have a paper to give at the conference on Wednesday afternoon, and am trying to keep up with my email. When I first logged on this evening, 33 messages downloaded.

David


Article No. 869: [Branch from no. 868] posted by ted brown on Tue, Mar. 30, 1999, 00:29
Subject: re: 3rd Reading on Professionalism

Hello Forum One Members:

I hope everyone is doing okay. I am reporting to let you know that I'm still on the team and trying to catchup on the discussions. I tried to explore the chat last week and didn't fair to well. I will try and get on tomarrow and help to build the discussion. I had some setbacks the last few weeks and thanks be to God for His mercy in helping me to get back on track. I have been reading the comments and appreciate the insights shared by the members. Look forward to the chat.

ted


Article No. 738 : posted by rogenia goza on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 19:08
Subject: Reqeust for HELP

To Forum One,

At this point, I am not sure if my messages have been being received or not.

I wrote Dr. Freed, about a week ago - since then I learned that she had been having trouble connecting with the various forums, while she was on travel. I am ATTEMPTING to connect with each of you to determine where are we?

It is my understanding that assignments are due within a specific time frame, and that members of each forum are to discuss their view of each article with a matched up partner, chosen by Dr. Freed, prior to submitting to their individual forum for further discussion, and then onward for the entire class members to review and/or discuss.

My situation is, that i have not been paired with a partner, and I have not heard from Dr. Freed. i was already behind in two lessions, because of family issued. But I have tried to maintain a level of continuous study and course input. PLEASE if any member of our forum - at least I believe I am a member of Forum One - can assist me and point the direction from here I would be thankful.

When I finish composing and senting this message, I will attempt to reach Dr. Freed, directly via her eMail address.

This message is twofold. To let members of Forum One know that I have not with drawn from the course - forum, and that I an currently up to date with my reading of the assigned articles, and that I am seeking help/directions of how to get included in the discussions on a one-on-one basics as well as from a group level?

Please advise - Somebody. GOZA


Article No. 740: [Branch from no. 738] posted by Dan Applegate on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 19:27
Subject: re: Reqeust for HELP

On behalf of Forum ONE

WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME

We are just beginning our discussion on Problem based learning. However, we are still commenting on our last reading due to the continuous insight others in the forum are offering.

Welcome

Dan


Article No. 743: [Branch from no. 738] posted by Instructor on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 19:52
Subject: re: Reqeust for HELP

Rogenia - glad you are connected!! I have not been perscriptive about the pairing situation - if you want to pair with someone fine - otherwise it seemed to me we were having enough diffficuluties with the forums and there was no point in adding to that frustration - so if you want to have dialogue beyond the forum - set it up in the chat rooms or via email or any other method that works for you!! For the two topics you haven't had discussion on, I'd be happy with a reflective piece sent to me via email - then you can get on board with your forum on the third topic - problem based learning! Enjoy!


Article No. 751: [Branch from no. 738] posted by David Heise on Tue, Mar. 16, 1999, 11:24
Subject: re: Reqeust for HELP

Hello Goza,

I see your message on the Forum. My understanding with regard to the pairs is a little vague, but I think we were still meant to communicate via this forum, meaning others in our forum could read our dialogue if they wished.

I have suggested that Shirley indicate the pairings in the page that lists who is in which forum - http://www.andrews.edu:8900/EDUC632002/forums. Maybe we all need to be reminded about just how the pairing is meant to work. Shirley has written some additional notes about this, saying it was meant to reduce the number of messages we would have to read, but that since there had been technical difficulties, she would not require it for now.

Hope you will be able to stay with the group now. Good to have you back.

David


Article No. 764: [Branch from no. 751] posted by Instructor on Wed, Mar. 17, 1999, 11:53
Subject: re: Reqeust for HELP

Yes David - you have that right! I will NOT be doing any arbitrary pairing - however - if people want to pair - the chat room is open and available for your use - My personal policy as a teacher is to delete requirements if necessary - I will never add requirements!! And this is one time it seems like I should delete this expectation! Hope that clarifies this issue!!shirley


Article No. 742 : posted by Dan Applegate on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 19:35
Subject: CHAT TIME

Sorry about making a new chain but when can we chat. So far any night is good except Wednesday. Any other conflicts? How about time? Maybe we could pick 7:30 which is right before Shirley open the general discussion. It would give us an opportunity to "ambush" her with questions, thoughts, or comments. (Just kidding about the ambush part.) Any thoughts? Maybe two times a week if everyone cannot make it one day. Tuesdays and Thursdays?

I will check everyone's responses as often as I can (at least everyday) to help move our forum into the CHAT room.

Dan


Article No. 744: [Branch from no. 742] posted by Instructor on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 19:55
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Ambush would feel really good to me!! So far I haven't had to deal with more than two people at a time - I'd love to have so many that we had to "send you to your own room!"


Article No. 753: [Branch from no. 742] posted by David Heise on Tue, Mar. 16, 1999, 11:39
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

In article 742 on Mon, Mar. 15, 1999, 19:35, Dan Applegate writes:
>Maybe two times a week if everyone cannot make it
>one day. Tuesdays and Thursdays?

These are the nights that would work best for me too Dan. I'll check in at 7:30 tonight. Do you want to meet in the General Chat for EDUC632, or go straight to Room 1 (for Forum ONE!)? I'll check both places.

Meet you all for a chat tonight.

David


Article No. 769: [Branch from no. 753] posted by Dan Applegate on Wed, Mar. 17, 1999, 22:02
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

David Please do not get discouraged about Tuesday's lack of participation in Chat. I am sorry, but I was thinking that we would get this going next week. I was thinking that by the end of this week everyone would have the opportunity to read about it and share the best times for them would be. I assumed that not everyone would have logged in to read about a possible meeting time until at least Wednesday. I apologize for not being so clear. However, so far Tuesday and Thursday nights at 7:30 do look good.

Dan


Article No. 774: [Branch from no. 769] posted by Mario Ochoa on Thu, Mar. 18, 1999, 07:06
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Forum One colleagues:

I definitely don't have access to the Chat option. There must be something wrong with my equipment, both at home and office, the fact is that I can not get "in" the chat rooms. I am a Mac user, and in spite of David's and Shirley's technical tips, I have beeen unable to get in. Sorry. I am still trying to find a friend that has a different system to see if I can participate. Regards,

Mario


Article No. 777: [Branch from no. 774] posted by Instructor on Thu, Mar. 18, 1999, 20:36
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Mario - now that is irritating!! We are learning a lot about our various systems aren't we!!


Article No. 792: [Branch from no. 777] posted by Mario Ochoa on Fri, Mar. 19, 1999, 17:49
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Shirley:

Yes, it is irritating. Today I got some new hope, my son came home for spring break, and he will try some additional tips/tricks. Don't count me out yet!

Have a great Sabbath!

Mario


Article No. 810: [Branch from no. 769] posted by Dan Applegate on Sun, Mar. 21, 1999, 21:45
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Forum ONE

Not everyone has chimed in on the CHAT time, but based on those who did, Let's try to get on Tuesdays and Thursdays around 7:30.

We can start in General Chat and go from there. Talk to you Tuesday, March 23rd.

Dan


Article No. 811: [Branch from no. 810] posted by David Heise on Mon, Mar. 22, 1999, 10:15
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

In article 810 on Sun, Mar. 21, 1999, 21:45, Dan Applegate writes:
>Forum ONE
>
>Not everyone has chimed in on the CHAT time, but based on
>those who did, Let's try to get on Tuesdays and Thursdays
>around 7:30.
>
>We can start in General Chat and go from there. Talk to you
>Tuesday, March 23rd.
>
>Dan

I have been checking in at some point during each evening, but since I do not stay online, it could be like ships passing in the night. So set your alarm for 7:30PM Tuesday. See you there.

David


Article No. 818: [Branch from no. 811] posted by Dan Applegate on Tue, Mar. 23, 1999, 20:46
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

David

This may be harder than I thought. I logged on around 7:30 but my two numbers kept ringing busy. I tried consistently for about 10 minutes, then every 15 minutes after. I connected around 8:00 only to be knocked off line...the internet is rude that way. It just all of a sudden said good-bye. I returned and am writing this at 9:00 but no one is left in the CHAT rooms. I am going to try and get on at 7:00 thursday and if I do I will just search the web until 7:30. Ships passing in the night not knowing their course may be a better analogy.

Ugh. the frustration. I am confident we will get it. DAn


Article No. 824: [Branch from no. 818] posted by Instructor on Wed, Mar. 24, 1999, 08:34
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Forum One - we must keep trying to work this technology - I've had a crazy week of technological difficulties myself - but my intent is to be on with you!! Hear you thursday!! shirley


Article No. 829: [Branch from no. 824] posted by Sheila Smith on Wed, Mar. 24, 1999, 19:22
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Since this is my first contact in over a week, I will let you know that Tues. or Thurs. at 7:00 or 7:30 will work for me. Thanks for getting this going. See you tomorrow night.

Sheila


Article No. 830: [Branch from no. 829] posted by Mario Ochoa on Thu, Mar. 25, 1999, 05:38
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Forum Oners:

I have been able to sort out the technical problem, I'll try to connect in the chat Thursday night, at 7:00 - 7:30

Mario


Article No. 838: [Branch from no. 830] posted by David Heise on Thu, Mar. 25, 1999, 14:00
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

In article 830 on Thu, Mar. 25, 1999, 05:38, Mario Ochoa writes:
>Forum Oners:
>
>I have been able to sort out the technical problem, I'll
>try to connect in the chat Thursday night, at 7:00 - 7:30
>
>Mario

It would be great if would could all get to the chat room successfully and at the same time. I have been checking (momentarily) each night, but it has usually been much later in the evening when I get there. And apart from the first night when Janelle Lim was there because Shirley was in the air, I have always been very lonely!

David


Article No. 854: [Branch from no. 810] posted by Dan Applegate on Sun, Mar. 28, 1999, 12:11
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Forum ONE!

Nice job! I thought we had an excellent showing last Thursday. We worked out some technology bugs and learned how to use the forum. (Thanks to David, I almost got in trouble with Shirley-just kidding). I have not laughed outloud to myself like I did that night for a long time. The only technology bug that wasn't funny was when I received a sudden "good-bye" from America Online. I am looking forward to using the Chat room to discuss issues now that I am more familiar with it.

Dan


Article No. 855: [Branch from no. 854] posted by Mario Ochoa on Sun, Mar. 28, 1999, 21:37
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

That was very good indeed Dan. I am looking forward to our next chat. When would that be?, any suggestions? What about the other members of the Forum One, are they still experiencing trouble?

Somebody asked at the chat session what I've done to sort out my problem. I think my answer got divided into my numerous souls and didn'y get posted at all. Anyway, my problem was very simple: my Java connection was not activated. It was in the menu, but it was not "ON", once I got it activated the problem dissapeared (thanks to my son).

Mario


Article No. 877: [Branch from no. 854] posted by Dan Applegate on Tue, Mar. 30, 1999, 20:18
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Forum ONE!

A disappointing showing after a fun thursday in the chat room. I found ted in the general course room but when we moved to the EDUC632 course room, I lost ted from the screen. Let's really try to make an effort to be on thursday. Saying that, I will not be on Thursday, but will be anxious to see how we turn out. I will return next Tuesday evening.

I hope all is well.

Dan


Article No. 878: [Branch from no. 877] posted by ted brown on Tue, Mar. 30, 1999, 20:40
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

hello dan and forum one members:

as dan stated we got connected and then i lost my connection about 4 times. it seem that when there is a lack of activity aol disconnects. has anyone else had that problem? atleast know i know how to go on the chat line and find the group. i will try to be there on thursday for the dialogue. sorry we misfired this evening and how are we affected by the time zone of the members. i'm on cst in texas. have a good evening and we can discuss it thursday.

ted


Article No. 881: [Branch from no. 877] posted by Sheila Smith on Wed, Mar. 31, 1999, 17:50
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Dan, Sorry about missing the chat last night. After this week, I am hoping to actually participate. Aside from technical troubles of last week, this week has its own set of challenges: I'm still struggling with fatigue from the bout with the flu, and Southern is putting on the Sonrise pageant this weekend, a massive undertaking in which I have a small part directing two of the scenes. The rehearsals are often set during the hours of the chat. My hope is that next week I can participate and get acquainted with the chat experience. Sheila


Article No. 882: [Branch from no. 877] posted by David Heise on Wed, Mar. 31, 1999, 17:51
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

In article 877 on Tue, Mar. 30, 1999, 20:18, Dan Applegate writes:
>Forum ONE!
>
>A disappointing showing after a fun thursday in the chat
>room. Sorry I did not get there until very late. I had a paper to finish preparing for a conference. I presented it this afternoon, and am pleased with how it went.

I will be home Thursday night so I hope to see a bunch of you then.

David


Article No. 883: [Branch from no. 877] posted by Mario Ochoa on Wed, Mar. 31, 1999, 19:40
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Forum One:

Any suspicion you may have had that I am a slow learner has been confirmed! I didn't realized that we were going to get connected on Tuesday and Thursady every week. I thought the next session was going to be agreed upon later... Sorry. I'll be at the chat place tomorrow Thursday at 8PM??!

I guess then, that all Tuesdays and Thursdays are our chatting times??!

Mario


Article No. 894: [Branch from no. 883] posted by Instructor on Fri, Apr. 2, 1999, 07:11
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Forum ONE - I need to let you know that I am perfectly comfortable with you having your "topic" discussions in the chat rooms instead of / or besides the bulletin board - what I'm wanting is some serious engagment around the topic - so if you want me to know what you've discussed make sure you go into one of the rooms - those interactions are recorded - the ones in the general chat are not - you'll be able to arrange something that works for all of you I hope!! shirley


Article No. 901: [Branch from no. 894] posted by Mario Ochoa on Sun, Apr. 4, 1999, 21:15
Subject: re: CHAT TIME

Shirley & Forum One colleagues:

Since I don't know what will happen next Tuesday (with the freezing and other troubles), I would like to post some ideas that I had idedntified for our last Thursday chat, in which I fiunally couldn't participate.

It is interesting for me that both articles, the speech by Collens, and the abstract by Limerick&Clarke focus on a very vital aspect of leadership: the acceptance of "multiple realities as a reality" (Limerick..), and the correlated need that arises of accepting that no one single discipline will suffice to cope with the problems emerging from that multi-reality. Collens proposes the search for a new professional, the Renaissance professional, Limerick and Clarke offer the individual empowerment, processual competences, and interdependence.

I believe that both perspectives coincide in the experiential reality or praxis of any and all professional, current society is demanding that the professional/leaders be capable of resolving the puzzle presented by the different realities that coexist at any given time in that society, with the exact purpose of imagining and shaping a new future (change). It is also interesting that such change can be imagined from the perspective of our own preferred discipline, without ignoring the need for reaching out to the others.

Quite a challenge for our own leadership program I would say. Our view of society, our own, should challenge us to incorporate the perspectives of other disciplines in a (sort of ) continuum of interaction, in order to act as leaders in the future. For me that is another manner of interpreting the "processual" competencies as perceived by Limerick &Clarke.

Another point of significance to me is the point of "randomness and chaos" mentioned by Limerick (page1), for the authors it seems that the way of coping is through the development of processual competencies, or "dynamic" manners of coping with the continous change in society. From another discipline we couild borrow the term "learning organization" defined as the organization always open to change and learning, dynamic in change, by excellence.

One enormous challenge for all educators would be, I think and quoting from Limerick, how to adequate our own individual progress to the one of society in which we live.

Collens believes that a solution is to create a multi-faceted professional, a renaissance individual, Limerick and Clarke want to create a multi-interdependent professional group. Great challenge for all of us in our leadership program, how do we integrate our own experience and theories with each other?

What do you think?

Mario


Article No. 802 : posted by David Heise on Sun, Mar. 21, 1999, 14:44
Subject: Limerick's Problem-based learning

BRIGID LIMERICK - PROBLEM-BASED LEARNING Paper

Hello Forum ONE! What did you think of Limerick's paper?

I found some strange contradictions between this and Collens' paper. Collens' "Renaissance professional" is able to relate their knowledge to the needs of a diverse society. The language used in Limerick's paper seems to convey an attitude of intellectual elitism, or an attempt to dress up mediocre ideas to make them sound profound. For example, these words are used in the first paragraph: reconceptualise, contextualise, processual. I don't know how many times "processual" is used but it occurs in two successive sentences three paragraphs before "NOTES". The fancy words seem to be saying that this is not meant for a diverse audience, but only for those "in the know".

Apart for the language, I found a number of things in the paper that I resonated with, not the least of which is that it comes from my home town of Brisbane, Queensland.

There is a section on Interdependence and Networking which has strong echoes of our Roundtable last year with Jaclyn Kostner and the Excalibur sword. Four key issues emerged in the evaluation of the University of Georgia EdD program - "building trust, taking risks, negotiating new roles, and the expectations held about resourcing". Remember that King Arthur's sword symbolizes T for Trust.

This is exactly the issue with a proposal we are working on in ITS (Information Technology Services) at Andrews. (Remember Shirley's leadership motto - "I'm working on my Ph.D. today." That is true over and over for me.) Anyhow, with mass replacement's of PCs looming to meet Y2K compliance, we are working on a proposal for the university to optimize buying power, through maximizing value and minimizing purchase cost, and to minimize time spent purchasing and supporting PCs. All departments are free to do their own purchasing from vendors of their choice, but can significantly benefit the university for all purchases to be referred to the ITS Computer Store. What it takes is TRUST. We in ITS need to earn the trust of the departments.

I get a very good feeling about my own (our own) Leadership program as I read this paper. It is a report on the first year of a professional doctorate in educational leadership. Some of the key observations and feelings that I have about our program are reported in Limerick's report. For example:

Critical characteristic of leadership: "Processual competencies are critical in leadership development as leadership in the post-modern world is characterised by action, or as *process and relationship*, and not merely as position."

Reaction to a student comment: "Our excitement and commitment to this programme is reflected by at least one student who wrote: 'My mind is reeling, screaming overload, but I'm exhilarated'."

Hear, hear! Does anyone else in our program feel these or similar points of resonance?

David


Article No. 803: [Branch from no. 802] posted by David Heise on Sun, Mar. 21, 1999, 15:21
Subject: re: Limerick's Problem-based learning

Processual

I decided to do some Assignment 3 on this word "processual". I chose Metacrawler for the search, and found 48 matches.

Here are the 14 index references of the ones that were in English:

686 A Processual Analysis of the Customer Service Training 549 PROCESSUAL VIDEO (web block - pornographic?) 520 A Processual Analysis of the Customer Service Training 455 Research Profile: Robert Preucel (archeology) 383 Patty Jo Watson (archeology) 373 Reader In Archaeological Theory; Post-Processual And Congnitive Approaches by Editor: ... 311 for lack of attention (Neoism) 249 Seminar Abstract (Uni of Adelaide, Dept of Mgmt) 206 CFP: Processual Research on Management and Organization (Finland) 124 for lack of attention (Neoism) 78 Bibliography (archaeology) 68 ORLAPUBS P. 23: PROCESSUAL FORMATIVES & ENGLISH MOD (not found) 63 The Semiotics of Post-Semiotics (Language) 62 anthro-l: april-1994: Post-processual/ postmodern archaeology

The word seems to be most commonly used in archeology, but two sites were found using it in connection with change, management and organization. I cannot find it in any dictionaries, so I am only guessing at its meaning. Is anyone else finding this to be a problem? Have you found a definition for the word "processual"?

David


Article No. 804: [Branch from no. 802] posted by David Heise on Sun, Mar. 21, 1999, 15:40
Subject: re: Limerick's Problem-based learning

Processual

Search results from the Netscape search engine.

This turned up 1063 entries. Processual must be a word in the Portuguese language, since the large majorty of these site have .br in the domain name (ie, are in Brazil), or .pt (Portugal). One of the English references is a scholarly paper by Tracey Burgess-Limerick (related to Brigid Limerick?) from a different Australian University. Here is a passage from this reference using the word processual: "To account for this positioning of the participants as knowledge makers, a model of self was constructed, termed processual being, which is grounded in process and views self as a construct, as a subject, and as steeped in multiplicity. Processual being is supported by a non-oppositional, non-dichotomous agency-context synthesis, termed responsive agency." Huh? Maybe I should try the Brazilian sites. I may get more help there!

Seriously, Gerson, I hope you read this. Maybe you could shed some light on what the word means in English.

David


Article No. 806: [Branch from no. 802] posted by David Heise on Sun, Mar. 21, 1999, 17:16
Subject: re: Limerick's Problem-based learning

I have just read a little one-liner by Stephen Covey in this month's issue of Bits & Pieces about trust. It connects well with what I was trying to say about ITS needing to earn the trust of the departments so that Andrews could improve its PC purchasing and support.

"Trust is the highest form of human motivation." Stephen R. Covey.

David